| Home recording and general music post from the archived Yabb Recording Website Message Board. Some of the info here may be outdated but many of the audio recording and home studio tips are still good. Note: The only tags I made and attempt to convert are italics, bold, center and underline. So if you see some gibberish surrounded by brackets, just ignore it.
Recording Website Archived Yabb board Post
Febuary 2001 Yabb Message Board Archive
Subject: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Ally | 02/25/01 at 08:19:37
First of all...let me say here that I am NOT dogging drummers when I relate this story. (I play a bit of drums myself.)
I'll try to keep this short. When my band was going...I had a drummer who was fantastic (despite playing with a few missing fingers from an industrial accident). He played for a different band before and had some good experience.
But here's where a problem comes in...we naturally booked ourselves at the local pubs/bars and this drummer enjoyed a "few" drinks. By the last set of the night, he was totally "snockered." So much so..that I was afraid that if he stood up...he would fall over. His playing during the last set...would be somewhat less than fantastic. His beats would go from fast to slow...sometimes he would drop the sticks, etc. Well...HE felt that he played better when he was drunk than when he was sober...lol. We always seemed to get through that last set ok...so I didn't make a big deal out of it. Some people I guess wouldn't worry too much about it since we were only playing local bars/pubs...but I wondered if you've had any similar experiences and if it would have been a problem for you or if you did or didn't do anything about it.
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by JR#97 | 02/25/01 at 09:18:37
Hey Ally, I can definitely relate. I've been on stage with hammered musicians, and unfortunately I've been on stage hammered myself (only once... i was dragged up there as a guest). The last time I was on stage with a drunk band memember, he couldn't remember the rhythem style of our tunes... be could still play the chords. So basically our tunes sounded completely different. Kinda cool, but still annoying. In your case, if Dude thinks he can play better drunk and you feel otherwise, then tape your shows. The tape will never lie.... maybe even video tape a show.
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Jon_B | 02/25/01 at 11:51:09
I think JR97's idea is an excellent one. If a musician is fantastic under normal circumstances, they take a lot of pride in their musicianship, and if you can prove to them that their substance abuse is making them look bad, not to mention the rest of the band,that ought to straighten him or her out.
It would also give them a second chance, rather than just kicking them out of the band. You're not a beginner, you pretty much want to sound your best at all times. You never know for sure who might come strolling into a small venue.
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Percy | 02/25/01 at 17:02:26
Hey Ally
Over the years I played with some characters,drummers and otherwise and it was usually the same spiel, "I play better when Ive had a big fatty hoot/24 beers". Ya right. I had to hold up our lead singer years ago with the neck of my bass to keep him from falling off the stage but he was soundin gooood. What JR#97 says should work but dont let him know your recording the performance. The band Im in now is pretty well behaved for the most part and they dont want me recording anything cause allthough they wont admit it,they dont like what they hear.
Percy
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Ally | 02/25/01 at 17:32:03
Hey guys....I really appreciate the input. It sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately..the only video camera I have right now is HUGE. It would not be easily concealed unless there was a rather large plant somewhere...lol.
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by db | 02/25/01 at 19:32:20
You could say, no drinking till the last set, because if he is getting shnockered in the last set, he was drinking way before that. It will get worse, if something isn't done. He will be drinking earlier and ealier, having a negative effect on the whole performance. You all work to hard to let that happen. If he has some drinks before the last set, he won't be trashed by the end. Try coffee, the house will rock, right up till closeing, into the parking lot, and onto the nearest Denny's.
--db :o
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Broken_Recor | 02/26/01 at 13:30:04
We had a similar problem. Our drummer liked to drink quite a bit, it really didn't affect his playing, but the problem was, almost without fail, about halfway through the set he'd just decide it was time to go take a whiz.
To remedy this, we came up with an acoustic song sans percussion that broke out into an ad lib solo at the end.
When he got to hankerin to take a whiz, we'd just send him to the john and break into the acoustic song. I played lead guitar, so when it came time for the solo, I'd move to the front of the stage and keep playing until I could see him heading back to the drum kit! ;D
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by ds | 02/27/01 at 18:29:02
If he's screwing up and it bothers you and the other people, definitely have a talk with him and ask him to cut down.
It all depends I guess. I know our singer does better if he's had a couple (and I mean a couple, not 6!) beers before we start. It helps him relax and have fun. I usually drink a couple of beers while playing, but not enough to start messing up. Maybe it's different from drummers though.
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Haywire | 03/04/01 at 05:02:48
This is a difficult and unfortunately common situation to be faced with. Here's my gut feeling..cold and impersonal. Bear in mind that I don't know you or your drummer. My experiences may have occured under different driving conditions. Your mileage may vary.
Ok...this guy drifts from band to band. He's a drinker...a problem drinker. He plays with bar bands till they get a bellyfull of his nonsense, and they show him the door. He moves on to another situation, and history repeats itself. I know too many of him. I know a steel player from upstate NY,where I'm originally from. Killer steel player. Had it all...speed, taste, the whole package. Went to Nashville to hit the bigtime.And he could have hooked up bigtime. But he was a drinker. He didn't last and came home a couple years later. He played with local country bands...most of which were pretty bad. Must have been a pretty lousy feeling.He'd get drunk at gigs..had a big mouth, and...well you get the picture. He's great, and now he can't even get a gig in a two-bit cover band. His drinking shut him down. And in the process, he gave other musicians a bad name as well.
Your drummer drinks not because he likes to, as much as because he HAS to. If I am right (and maybe I'm not), no amount of videotape or band meetings,or asking him to cut back or getting pissed at him at gigs is going to change his behavior (for very long, anyway) because he cannot control it in the first place. So he'll deny the problem, or say that he plays better drunk. It's important to understand the message he is sending you with those statements. Substance abusers are well versed in defending themselves. They are also highly manipulative, and will pull all kinds of strings to stay on your good side. It's likely that he's been thru the drill... many times. Bear in mind also that folks like him will jockey for position among members of the band. They will try to get on really solid ground with one or more band members, in hopes of having their support when the s@%t hits the fan. This can stress relationships and divide other members of your band. When you approach him about it, you're stepping into, and threatening his comfort zone...bigtime. Drinking is a big part of his gig. He's not about to acknowledge that,of course.
Where do you draw the line? I don't know. But I do feel that as long as you are willing to put up with it, you are his enabler. You are allowing him to continue his pattern of self-destruction, while dragging yourself down the tubes with him.
As far as not worrying about it too much because yer only playing small gigs...I guess that depends on how serious you all are...both as individuals, and as a group about your music and why you're on the stage in the first place. For me, I won't put up with it, whether it were at the Fillmore West,the local VFW or on my back porch with friends. It's no fun playin with drunks. Well ok... maybe on the back porch;)
I'm fortunate that I've never had a substance abuse problem. But I sure have been around a lot of people who did. I'm no saint, mind you;)I had some wild times in college...ya know how that goes;)Now, I like to have a couple of good beers once in a while, and I like to take a toke now and then at home when I play my geetars. Feels great, and no harm done. But when I was gigging..a couple beers a nite, if that. I never felt the need to mix music with drugs or alcohol. It just seems so great to be up there playing that I have no desire for anything else. I think that's a good thing.
You have diffcult decisions ahead, and I don't envy you one bit. But I don't think making excuses for him is going to benefit anyone in the long run. You may be doing him a favor by letting him go. It may be the blow that sends him crashing to the bottom of the barrel and makes him realize that he has to make a change in his life.
Of course, the flip-side to all this is that he calls you tommorrow and says he has come to terms with his problem, and you never see him drink another drop. He becomes an A-list session drummer. You get married a year from now, and together you have 6 kids. You're band gets that elusive contract, and you buy that horse farm you've always dreamed of up in Kentucky. Ya just never know...ya know?
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Haywire | 03/04/01 at 05:13:08
After all that rambling, I now realize that your problem was from a past life...er...band. Sorry. Good gosh, I've been up all nite...
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Ally | 03/04/01 at 07:30:05
That's quite alright Haywire. The advise is taken well because a friend and I have been trying to put together a band now for a couple months and I plan on working with a band when I get to Nashville and it's info I will need in the future. I like to jam as much as I can...I learn so much from other players...and I'm still around musicians much like my old drummer. Thanks..:)
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Ally | 03/04/01 at 08:00:38
btw Haywire....I chose to quit the band because of an ego problem someone was having. The drummer was not the biggest problem I had. We were doing really well but it's tough getting every member of the band to get along. The lead guitar player also had a major problem with his volume button...(laugh). I think my hearing was damaged in the process.
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Mr. Blonde | 03/06/01 at 06:01:11
Quite simply...
You're dealing with the difference between 'pros' and 'hacks'.
Any musician who makes a sizeable chunk of his/her income from playing, will not get drunk on the job. It's that simple. Fire the hacks, and find a pro. Not all pros will cost you high rates, but you will get what you paid for...A real musician, with a business-like attitude.
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by Crippled_Rich | 04/15/01 at 21:29:55
I agree with the above post. I had my flings with a guitarist who always drank sometimes too much before gigs.
Nowadays I've not the time for that crap. If you were boss of a company would you want your employees showing up to work drunk? I think not. Treat your music the same way. There are too many talented musicians out there to be wasting your time with someone who can't act like a professional.
Subject: Re: Can you relate? Question about bands.
by bonch | 04/25/01 at 23:21:15
I used to play with a drummer who thought he played better when he was high on weed. Needless to say, I found that even I could play drums better than him during those times, and I'm a guitarist!