| Home recording and general music post from the archived Yabb Recording Website Message Board. Some of the info here may be outdated but many of the audio recording and home studio tips are still good. Note: The only tags I made and attempt to convert are italics, bold, center and underline. So if you see some gibberish surrounded by brackets, just ignore it.
Recording Website Archived Yabb board Post
Febuary 2001 Yabb Message Board Archive
Subject: Equipment is Nothing.
by Angus Podgorny | 04/14/01 at 00:20:23
It seems to me, that too many of the people on this site are focused on "What equipment will make me sound like a pro?" Then, the responses are either "This is what I have, and I like it (or don't like it.)" Or: "You don't need that peice of gear if you get a good sound to tape."
It's not about the equipment. Plain and simple. You could sit at your computers and post arguments all day about whether Mackie's mic pre's are really THAT great, but the fact is, Bruce Swedien, or John Hampton, or Roger Nichols, or any of a number of people could get a better sound out of a 1604VLZ and some ADATs than most of us could with SSL consoles, Studer tape machines, focusrite preamps, Urei Monitors, U47's... Or whatever else we could dream about.
My point is this:
Anyone can make decent recordings if they look at all the articles posted all over the web. If you want to make a GREAT recording, then LISTEN.
Yes, you CAN make use of Alesis' Nano-whatever products. No, I've never experienced any problems with the Phantom power on Presonus's Blue Tube. Yes, 24-bit audio sounds good, but in the hands of the right person, a 16 bit A/D converter can sound awesome (see A Perfect Circle's article at Digidesign's website.) If a sonic maximizer or Aural Exciter was so useless, then why do major studios and mastering engineers own them.
Goodness Gracious! Go buy a a terratec sound card or something for your computer, and have fun! After all, Music IS about entertaining, and it's not always an audience that's being entertained.
Keep on recording (and make sure that little red light is on.)
-Angus
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by Tim_Z | 04/14/01 at 01:04:51
Angus
Everything you have said has been said a dozen times at every recording forum on the internet. While what you say is correct, what makes you think we're not having fun ??? I am a musician before I am a recording engineer, but I have fun doing both. There are some that really enjoy just talking gear, and there's nothing wrong with that either. Myself, I just think these are great places to learn and help others learn, whether it be about gear, techniques or playing. The absolute most important aspect for good recording is from the SOURCE. With the SOURCE being, instrument, playing ability, voice, amp, song, etc. If the SOURCE ain't happening, then no amount of engineering wizardry is make up for it, but if it is, then better gear and knowledge can do magic. That's why we talk about what the gear can do. Have you checked out Roger Nichols' own recording forum. He spends most of his time talking about gear, and it ain't cheap stuff either :o
Why don't you post some of your music, so we can hear the proof in your words 8)
Tim Z
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by Dolphin | 04/14/01 at 01:51:35
I recorded on a little Tascam four-track cassette for a very long time.
In "95,I bought a DA-88 and an Allen & Heath board. When I discovered the sound quality that could be achieved with this gear right in my own home,my interest in recording was completely rejuvenated. Since that initial purchase,I've bought lots of new gear and now have a 24-track studio in my basement that I'm very proud of.
Almost everything I've bought has been on a recomendation from either a review in a magazine or on a site like this.
If you listen to what some of these cats that pass through here, have to say,I think you'd find that getting a sound in your own studio that rivals the "Big Boys", is not at all that incomprehensible.
I guarantee you,if Roger Nichols (whom I admire greatly) had my shitty old 4-track cassette and I used the stuff I've got now,I'd give him a pretty good run for the money.The type of equipment you use makes a HUGE difference.I'm talking about sound quality. Everybody knows you need something decent to record.
All that aside,this is a "recording website".
You talk about recording........;)
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by old_dan | 04/14/01 at 03:09:20
I agree to a point. But you can have the wrong or inadequate equipment. For instance, you wouldn't paint your car with a brush. Unless you were very very good.
And I think a lot of times folk ask about a piece of gear cuz they want someone else to confirm their purchase. Or if they have a problem. Besides it's just plain fun.
Also, some folks are into recording as a hobby and some as a profession. Technically, the performance and the recording are two different parts. For some of us the performance is more important, others the recording, while a few are able to integrate the two.
Personally, I would like more discussion on techniques like mic placement and so forth. Recording is just like computing - garbage in, garbage out. But very often a simple question about a piece of gear leads to a discussion of how to use it to how best to use it. I know I've learned a lot from those posts, not just how to use something, but when and why.
As Chopper Bob says; it's all good!
Take care,
Dan
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by Maury | 04/14/01 at 06:15:23
Dolphin, you hit the nail on the head! I too worked on 4 track cassette for years & when I moved to minidisk, all of the sudden I felt a new confidence. I used to spend all the creativity I had on fooling my peers into thinking I had a better machine than I really did. That's a FUN challenge, but even MORE fun when you graduate to a better price of gear. When I bought my Tascam 4 track I was micing everything with a crappy SM58 copy (not even a real one)! No matter who you are, you got limitations right there cause anything you record will be captured with a limited frequency response. Add that later with EQ and it will NEVER sound like it was at the source. Dan, you have a very good point - performance and recording are 2 different parts for sure! Why do som many people get bent out of shape when we talk gear? If I learn something valuable here, who cares what the original thread starts as? And everything about this IS fun. Buying gear blindly & hating it is not. Thanks for having me.
Maury
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by Ally | 04/14/01 at 08:00:37
Hiya Angus,
Yes..the source is very important regardless the gear used, but there are folks like me who would like to find the best way to capture the source and showcase it on tape/CD.
Speaking for myself only, I have recorded a lot. When I started out...it was a simple desktop Emerson tape recorder. Now I have a 424MKII Tascam which has all kinds of buttons, etc. My problem is that I haven't the slightest idea how to use it. I have been able to get some good recordings out of it...but the next time I sit down at it...I'm not sure how I produced it. Even if I write it all down, I don't necessarily get the same sound. That's where these fine folks come in...they give us pointers on how to use the equipment and have a wealth of information to give from their experience with similar equipment, etc. It saves me time fiddling around and helps me understand my equipment operations. (which saves frustration)
Sure...you may have a good source...but if you can't deliver it sounding halfway decent, then you have to compete with others who can capture that sound better and more pleasing to the ear of the listener. (Whether that listener is a customer or yourself...you just want the best sound you can get.)
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.....Thirst is Everything.
by JR#97 | 04/14/01 at 11:15:20
I can go both ways on this topic. I have mastered my share of pristine recordings of crappy songs and crappy performances. However, one thing I think needs to be taken in consideration when you talk gear, source, and who's pushing the buttons, is the overall production. You dont' need top notch gear for a great production... BUT you do need top notch gear for a great pristine high quality production. I was listening to some oldies the other day... some old Motown stuff... and they sounded old.. but the production was top notch.. great songs, great performances. So yeah, maybe Roger Nichols can get a top notch Grammy-esque production job out of 4-track, but it will still sound like a 4-track.
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by Puke | 04/14/01 at 21:45:12
Heavens temergatroid!!!!
What a well read and terribly experienced poster we have here. At the risk of probably repeating what may have been posted already as a mild rebuttle, here goes some fun.
1) When you say "most of us" please don't include me. that irritates the hell out of me. Because god may use a mackie does not mean that mackie is all of a sudden gonna capture the "whole" shooting match. It will still capture the same half it did when the devil used it. The rest of the sound will still be missing, as is with digital.
2)I don't know what "better" means, because in this business (from where I'm at) it changes every five minutes depending on who you are talking to (and the last drug they took). HOWEVER<, if you use the term "more accurate", you have a terribly weak arguement. We can all (I hope "all" is not a stretch here) get a more accurate sound out of a fully discrete class A setup than a mackie (if we follow instructions in manuals, yes, I said follow instructions). By the way, SSL'z are full of more bells and whistles than a small army, but are NOT exactly the best sounding boards out there, and are not even close to fully discrete.
3) Exciters/maximizers and such...Yes, quite a few studio's have themmm,,,,,, BUT
I don't know a lot places that brag about a aural exiter, or sonic maximizer. It has always been a last resort when some idiot --has a poor sounding setup (but thinks it sounds like god---AND--insists on using it--AND--now the "accurate" reproduction of his sound is on tape----it's the studio or engineers fault that---you guessed it,,, "it doesn't either sound anything like it did when I played it". ...........GET MY POINT>. So now, because he filtered half his bandwidth out before it even got to the console, WE GET TO SOMEHOW TRY AND PUT IT ALL BACK, EVEN THOUGH HE THINKS HE NEVER TOOK IT OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE...........YA RIGHT.
SKEUZE THE BABBLING>
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by CGibson | 04/15/01 at 01:35:58
Hey Angus
sounds to me like you have read something that struck a nerve. I can agree with almost everything you wrote. but remember that deep down we are all just simply gear junkies. It all starts with our first instrument or recording deck, and then we see how cool the other toys are and what they can do for only a few measly bucks out of our pockets. It's obviously a vicious cycle that can't be broken, and we're unable to attend our gear junkie anonymous meeting due to the fact we're all out buying more gear.
I have people ask me this same question every day and inevitable my answer is almost always PRACTICE.
But without good tools and the knowledge to operate them, the learning process can not only take longer,
it can cause poor habits and sometimes discourage us completely.
So if somebody ask how, when, where, why. It's because they want to learn. and when somebody replies with their experience on the subject it 's because they want to help.
So I ask you...what can make me sound like a pro?
:)
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by Big_D | 04/15/01 at 05:44:17
Don't underestimate equipment. It can make a big difference in any endeavor. The issue isn't whether a pro can do better on a piece of shit than a hack can on something state of the art. The point is that the pro will do better on state of the art equipment than he/she would on a 4 track cassette. That's true in recording, golf, wood working, you name it. Better tools do better than inferior tools, for the pro or probably anyone else. The issue is relative only to a particular individual. I think the premise of the original post places the emphasis on the wrong point. Just my view on an interesting post.
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by Silent_Bob | 04/15/01 at 22:59:18
True technique is more important than toys but as many have said before, the right tools for the jobs can make all the difference. You have to keep in mind that some of us already know how to use say a compressor effectively but do not know which compressor is best for what application. Say, my Alesis compressor is fine for bass but sucks on vocals. My Boss is perfect for guitar but sucks on everything else. My Behringer is good for vocals but not drums.
However I do like when people talk about using inferior tools to their advantage. Like back in my 4-track days, I would deliberately set up the levels wrong so the DBX NR wouldn't fully decode on playback giving a subtle RMS compressor (perfect for mixes when you slightly saturate the tape BTW). Or when someone sends a sound through a delay and into a compressor while sending the undelayed signal through the sidechain so they can have a slight lookahead.
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by 4track | 04/16/01 at 13:00:51
Equiptment is nothing! I guess if I had to agree with you I'd still be sitting on the kitchen floor banging on pots and pans with a wooden spoon. I don't know about you but I'm a song writer. I have a few choices. I can spend a hell of a lot of money and go into a studio or I can collect some equiptment on the way, try it myself, and have a bit of fun. I've been just recording for about a year. Because I'm doing it myself it's been a slow go but I've learned a hell of alot and developed my ear and skills as a musician along the way. Like a lot of musicians I don't have a lot of money. I've wasted money on gear because I wasn't that well informed. I'd rather talk about equiptment and learn as much as I can before I buy and not waste my money, it's too precious to me and I've worked too hard to get it. I've recorded songs in the past year on my PC better then anything else I've done and I'm having a blast doing it. now if you'll excuse me my wife just got home from shopping, she's bought a few new pots and a much bigger spoon.;D
Subject: Re: Equipment is Nothing.
by pcrecord | 04/17/01 at 07:16:45
OK ! Let's go back to the initial post :
Equipment is Nothing.
But then you end with :
[quote author=Angus Podgorny link=board=rec1&num=987229224&start=0#0 date=04/14/01 at 00:20:23]
Goodness Gracious! Go buy a a terratec sound card or something for your computer, and have fun!
-Angus
Humm ! Seem like an opinion on equipment !! ;D
It seems that every time I read something chocking at first, it ends up, it's something from someone with great humor.
You want another mistake :
[quote author=Angus Podgorny link=board=rec1&num=987229224&start=0#0 date=04/14/01 at 00:20:23]
My point is this:
Anyone can make decent recordings if they look at all the articles posted all over the web.
;D:D;D
What can I say ?
If I wasn't laughing so much, I could say , What are you doing here ? But, I don't like degrading someone else and those who do.
Angus,
I will be happy to read your comments on any subject and I'd probably answer your questions if I know I can help. That's what we do here ! Our subject is recording. Yes ! And if your are serious about it, you know a 50 $ mic is not enough to make a CD. So ? Is equiment still not important ??
Thanks Angus, You maked me smile alot !!
Good luck in your career !!
;)